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	<title>Comments on: Rabaul and American Collectivism</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/</link>
	<description>Continuing the Conversation</description>
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		<title>By: Bob Stern</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Stern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-203</guid>
		<description>One of the things that neither VaS or Burns presentations of the War in the Pacific do justice to is how amazingly different this war was than any war we ever had before or are likely to ever have again.  Battles between fleets that never fired on each other, using ship-based aircraft to control rocky small islands, worth nothing except that they could host airfields to continue the battle for the next rocky island: there was no useful pre-existing strategy that this style of war could have been based on.   The entire unique battlefield saga ended with the detonation of a uniquely terrible weapon.  Of course it was individuals and nations that did the fighting, and these stories can be told.  But the bigger picture of this remarkably creative saga of destruction has yet to be captured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things that neither VaS or Burns presentations of the War in the Pacific do justice to is how amazingly different this war was than any war we ever had before or are likely to ever have again.  Battles between fleets that never fired on each other, using ship-based aircraft to control rocky small islands, worth nothing except that they could host airfields to continue the battle for the next rocky island: there was no useful pre-existing strategy that this style of war could have been based on.   The entire unique battlefield saga ended with the detonation of a uniquely terrible weapon.  Of course it was individuals and nations that did the fighting, and these stories can be told.  But the bigger picture of this remarkably creative saga of destruction has yet to be captured.</p>
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		<title>By: charles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 05:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-190</guid>
		<description>I remember watching Victory at Sea on late night tv when I was a boy.  I found it fascinating and quite heroric.  Of course it glorified warfare and was really great propaganda.  Almost no one who has been in combat would see it that way. They see the terrible waste and never forget what has happened.

Of all the comments, the ones that seems to ring the most true was by Wanda.  Our involvement in the Spanish-American War was truly regrettable.  The Spanish tried to avoid the war and the newspaper Barons William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer did their utmost to promote the war. After the war, the Phillipinos were expecting liberation from Spain and instead were subjugated by the US Army.  Twice as many American died during the Phillipine Insurrection as were killed in the Spanish American War.  If the US had given the Phillipinos their freedom, our war with Japan might have beeen avoided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember watching Victory at Sea on late night tv when I was a boy.  I found it fascinating and quite heroric.  Of course it glorified warfare and was really great propaganda.  Almost no one who has been in combat would see it that way. They see the terrible waste and never forget what has happened.</p>
<p>Of all the comments, the ones that seems to ring the most true was by Wanda.  Our involvement in the Spanish-American War was truly regrettable.  The Spanish tried to avoid the war and the newspaper Barons William Randolph Hearst and Joseph Pulitzer did their utmost to promote the war. After the war, the Phillipinos were expecting liberation from Spain and instead were subjugated by the US Army.  Twice as many American died during the Phillipine Insurrection as were killed in the Spanish American War.  If the US had given the Phillipinos their freedom, our war with Japan might have beeen avoided.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary C. Sommers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary C. Sommers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-174</guid>
		<description>I found Ken Burns&#039; series rather flat and disappointing, despite much amazing footage. I compared it, however, to the &quot;The World at War&quot;, the 26 episode Thames Television production, rather than &quot;Victory at Sea&quot;. Burns&#039; series seemed parochial, in comparison, and never quite managed to achieve a sense of the scope and meaning of the events.  &quot;Pity and Fear&quot; a la Aristotle cannot be achieved in the viewer merely by showing more dead bodies than previous documentaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found Ken Burns&#8217; series rather flat and disappointing, despite much amazing footage. I compared it, however, to the &#8220;The World at War&#8221;, the 26 episode Thames Television production, rather than &#8220;Victory at Sea&#8221;. Burns&#8217; series seemed parochial, in comparison, and never quite managed to achieve a sense of the scope and meaning of the events.  &#8220;Pity and Fear&#8221; a la Aristotle cannot be achieved in the viewer merely by showing more dead bodies than previous documentaries.</p>
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		<title>By: CHRISTOPHER M. GRAY</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>CHRISTOPHER M. GRAY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-204</guid>
		<description>Professor Fukuyama wonders why the American people do not feel fully involved in the wars waged since World War II. Fukuyama should consider this conclusion reached by military historian Adrian Lewis, a former Army officer:

The most significant transformation in the American conduct of war since World War II and the invention of the atomic bomb, was not technological, but cultural, social, and political- THE REMOVAL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FROM THE CONDUCT OF WAR. (Adrian Lewis, THE AMERICAN CULTURE OF WAR (Routledge, 2007).

If Professor Fukuyama, THE AMERICAN INTEREST&#039;s editors, and the rest of our foreign policy &quot;elite&quot; wish to know who removed the American people from the conduct of war, they need only look in the mirror.

Christopher M. Gray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Fukuyama wonders why the American people do not feel fully involved in the wars waged since World War II. Fukuyama should consider this conclusion reached by military historian Adrian Lewis, a former Army officer:</p>
<p>The most significant transformation in the American conduct of war since World War II and the invention of the atomic bomb, was not technological, but cultural, social, and political- THE REMOVAL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FROM THE CONDUCT OF WAR. (Adrian Lewis, THE AMERICAN CULTURE OF WAR (Routledge, 2007).</p>
<p>If Professor Fukuyama, THE AMERICAN INTEREST&#8217;s editors, and the rest of our foreign policy &#8220;elite&#8221; wish to know who removed the American people from the conduct of war, they need only look in the mirror.</p>
<p>Christopher M. Gray.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Beedon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Beedon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 05:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-175</guid>
		<description>I can add nothing to the discussion about the merits of war. But I will say that watching &quot;Victory at Sea&quot; as a boy (born in 1947) was exciting. The music and narration were top notch. I&#039;m sure that if I were to watch it now I&#039;d notice the boosterism and use of phony movie clips. Nevertheless, the series was and is an important record. Just think: what if it had NOT been made?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can add nothing to the discussion about the merits of war. But I will say that watching &#8220;Victory at Sea&#8221; as a boy (born in 1947) was exciting. The music and narration were top notch. I&#8217;m sure that if I were to watch it now I&#8217;d notice the boosterism and use of phony movie clips. Nevertheless, the series was and is an important record. Just think: what if it had NOT been made?</p>
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		<title>By: John Joyce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator>John Joyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-182</guid>
		<description>I think the Brits produced a product called &quot;The World At War&quot; that got rave reviews world wide. If I&#039;m not mistaken the narrator was Lawrence Olivier</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Brits produced a product called &#8220;The World At War&#8221; that got rave reviews world wide. If I&#8217;m not mistaken the narrator was Lawrence Olivier</p>
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		<title>By: eusebio</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>eusebio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-205</guid>
		<description>The level of callosity, inhumanity , and lack of solidarity with fellow human beings which dwell in the hearts , minds , souls of the so called, progressives, liberals,etc in America and the West
is horrendous
Humans beings suffer if they are torture in Moscow or in Berlin if their nails are pull with pincers by the Mao or Ho Chi Min, Fidel repressive agents or by Pinochet agents
Baltic invasion and annexation,

Cambodia genocide, Tibet genocide, etc etc Ukraine millions of victims, Poland victims at the hands of the Communist , Hungary so so  so so on

No marches not protest, not burning of Red China flags,
Not solidarity for the millions of humans beings who suffer and keep suffering still today.

Those lay and clergy who claim to be against death penalty like Susan Sarandon but who join to support regimes like Castro cuba or the Palestines whose legal system allows the practice death penalty , those who march for disarm the West but support and applaud the Arm Race of Non Western
Those who  rant against America opposing self determination of the people like in the case of Puerto Rico which enjoys free election and the Independent Party always receive low per cent

Those who never rant against Red China blackmailing at gun point the people of Taiwan . Taiwanese want to choose their own destiny not to be force to become Chinese province even the majority of the Taiwanese are not ethnically Chinese but
Those who rant for Pro determination of th e
people silence against clear case of imperialism
Israel,  before Palestine, Israel existed.
So if the case who were first,
Clearly Israel historically had a realistic , legitimate claim. At least that the people forget that before the Arabs conquered the Holy Land the Jews before the Greeks ,Romans already were there
Same patterns
Ideologies who practice warfare conquer are exempt of any attack
Despite having a clear historical track records
Those who despise Western , American arm forces
Never seems to find
The Warlike, Imperialistic Hordes of Colonial
Communist, Islamic etc Conqueror
Evil, bad , disgusting. People has been murder, torture but because it is due to Western war efforts, such people, such fellow
humans does not matter

While Nationalism Patriotism is exalted in all those culture

For those crowd of Useful tool
Many of them part of the educated elite
of the successful business community ,
who cry against America when America confront torture and punish the perpetrators while
They , embrace people and culture who according to Human Rights Watch , practice torture without accountability
The majority of the members of the United Nations

Those people involve in so many social causes
We want to change the world and so full of hate against America who they claim to be th e worse

But Compare to whom, measure to whom,

They are the ones who enjoy the rights in America to act like demagogues freely while they join in alliance with regimes who refuse such privileges to their own people

And they blind with hate , will never change</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The level of callosity, inhumanity , and lack of solidarity with fellow human beings which dwell in the hearts , minds , souls of the so called, progressives, liberals,etc in America and the West<br />
is horrendous<br />
Humans beings suffer if they are torture in Moscow or in Berlin if their nails are pull with pincers by the Mao or Ho Chi Min, Fidel repressive agents or by Pinochet agents<br />
Baltic invasion and annexation,</p>
<p>Cambodia genocide, Tibet genocide, etc etc Ukraine millions of victims, Poland victims at the hands of the Communist , Hungary so so  so so on</p>
<p>No marches not protest, not burning of Red China flags,<br />
Not solidarity for the millions of humans beings who suffer and keep suffering still today.</p>
<p>Those lay and clergy who claim to be against death penalty like Susan Sarandon but who join to support regimes like Castro cuba or the Palestines whose legal system allows the practice death penalty , those who march for disarm the West but support and applaud the Arm Race of Non Western<br />
Those who  rant against America opposing self determination of the people like in the case of Puerto Rico which enjoys free election and the Independent Party always receive low per cent</p>
<p>Those who never rant against Red China blackmailing at gun point the people of Taiwan . Taiwanese want to choose their own destiny not to be force to become Chinese province even the majority of the Taiwanese are not ethnically Chinese but<br />
Those who rant for Pro determination of th e<br />
people silence against clear case of imperialism<br />
Israel,  before Palestine, Israel existed.<br />
So if the case who were first,<br />
Clearly Israel historically had a realistic , legitimate claim. At least that the people forget that before the Arabs conquered the Holy Land the Jews before the Greeks ,Romans already were there<br />
Same patterns<br />
Ideologies who practice warfare conquer are exempt of any attack<br />
Despite having a clear historical track records<br />
Those who despise Western , American arm forces<br />
Never seems to find<br />
The Warlike, Imperialistic Hordes of Colonial<br />
Communist, Islamic etc Conqueror<br />
Evil, bad , disgusting. People has been murder, torture but because it is due to Western war efforts, such people, such fellow<br />
humans does not matter</p>
<p>While Nationalism Patriotism is exalted in all those culture</p>
<p>For those crowd of Useful tool<br />
Many of them part of the educated elite<br />
of the successful business community ,<br />
who cry against America when America confront torture and punish the perpetrators while<br />
They , embrace people and culture who according to Human Rights Watch , practice torture without accountability<br />
The majority of the members of the United Nations</p>
<p>Those people involve in so many social causes<br />
We want to change the world and so full of hate against America who they claim to be th e worse</p>
<p>But Compare to whom, measure to whom,</p>
<p>They are the ones who enjoy the rights in America to act like demagogues freely while they join in alliance with regimes who refuse such privileges to their own people</p>
<p>And they blind with hate , will never change</p>
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		<title>By: Edis Bevan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Edis Bevan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Victory at Sea, a staple of late teatime viewing in the UK in the very late 1950&#039;s I recall. Along with the later &#039;Winston Churchill:The Valient Years&#039;.

Several of the Victory at Sea episodes on the BBC were preceded by an onscreen announcer reminding viewers that &#039;this is an American programme made for Americans and emphasises US contributions to the war in this treatre&#039;.

This was because there was quite considerable negative reaction from UK and Canadian veterans to the episodes on the Battle of the Atlantic which showed US ships and aircraft in action and hardly mentioned the Royal Navy or the Royal Canadian Navy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victory at Sea, a staple of late teatime viewing in the UK in the very late 1950&#8242;s I recall. Along with the later &#8216;Winston Churchill:The Valient Years&#8217;.</p>
<p>Several of the Victory at Sea episodes on the BBC were preceded by an onscreen announcer reminding viewers that &#8216;this is an American programme made for Americans and emphasises US contributions to the war in this treatre&#8217;.</p>
<p>This was because there was quite considerable negative reaction from UK and Canadian veterans to the episodes on the Battle of the Atlantic which showed US ships and aircraft in action and hardly mentioned the Royal Navy or the Royal Canadian Navy.</p>
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		<title>By: eugene chavez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>eugene chavez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 03:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-180</guid>
		<description>The music of Richard Rodgers (with his collaborator, Russell Bennet) indeed makes Victory At Sea something worth remembering now in our regrettable era.  On reflection we also hear the collossal work of Shostakovich,  the Leningrad Symphony; plus every lesser musical event of those years; before the insanity started in the 1960s.

Ever since rock and roll changed us forever, and most of all during Vietnam and afterwards, we saw the musical culture grow fangs.  Non-entities such as Bob Dylan and various other pretend poets and musicians took on a mythical status.  Today we have instead of musical giants,   the offspring of a clueless society.  Where there was once music we now hear grunts, defiance and banality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The music of Richard Rodgers (with his collaborator, Russell Bennet) indeed makes Victory At Sea something worth remembering now in our regrettable era.  On reflection we also hear the collossal work of Shostakovich,  the Leningrad Symphony; plus every lesser musical event of those years; before the insanity started in the 1960s.</p>
<p>Ever since rock and roll changed us forever, and most of all during Vietnam and afterwards, we saw the musical culture grow fangs.  Non-entities such as Bob Dylan and various other pretend poets and musicians took on a mythical status.  Today we have instead of musical giants,   the offspring of a clueless society.  Where there was once music we now hear grunts, defiance and banality.</p>
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		<title>By: JDG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/contd/2007/10/07/rabaul-and-american-collectivism/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>JDG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 01:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-american-interest.com/contd/?p=641#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Interesting thesis, if flawed. But another detail point. Rabaul is not the capital of the province. Kokapo is and Gazelle is a district, not a province.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thesis, if flawed. But another detail point. Rabaul is not the capital of the province. Kokapo is and Gazelle is a district, not a province.</p>
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